Episode 7: “A MORON'S FANTASY” feat. Organ Tapes *FULL EPISODE ON PATREON*

is it game yeah i'll just say that we should rob no that's not it's not what i meant we shouldn't okay we should there's more bread to be made in this music game let's not bro now i feel you loud and clear brother oh that's uh there's uh there's an exclusive no that's not an exclusive i'm just saying there's there's more bread to be made in this music game Courtmane, a.k.a. at Courtmane, a.k.a. Oregon Tapes. How are you living, brother? I'm all right. Yeah, I'm good. Good, thanks. Some say you just took the most quietly influential piss of all time. You could say that, yeah. Courtmane just took the most quietly influential piss of all time. Okay. If you say so. Courtmane just took the most quietly influential piss of all time. What was the yield like, man? It was just average. Average. Normal piss. Sounds like a man with something to hide. What about when you shit? I mean, I guess it depends. Just because I hear you're doing it so many times a day. I mean, it's regular. There's no issues. What do you think causes it to be so regular? Oh, it's not irregular. It's regular. No, regular. Sorry, I stammered on the arc so I was nervous. Sorry. Talking to the most quietly influential shitter. I don't know. Decent. Good fiber. Good fiber intake. But that's too much fiber, surely. I don't know. I don't think I have too much fiber because I don't eat many vegetables. How much water do you drink? Famously. A lot. That's good. It's probably a lot of water. Yeah, but what? So you're mostly shedding liquid? No. Fuck. No, no, no. I feel like even when it's hard, it's mostly liquid in the first place, right? Wait, wait, hang on, wait. So what, are you talking about like the anatomy of a shit? Yeah, it's still mostly water, right? I've got no, no, not for me. Even if it's like icy? It's like rock. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of her many list of elements. Like ZZ Top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It comes out with a big beard. Hard as shit.

this is once again a really good podcast so listen to the toilet podcast with four guys who pee pee and poo poo that's the kind of hard-hitting inside people come to clout farm too let's get down to brass tacks shall we would that be all right with you timothy yeah okay all right the panda bear beef let's let's get into it okay nice um why did you do that you did that why did you do that you did that why did you inspire him to say the words that he said you literally Gave him a piece of paper telling him what to say. What was that? He's reading from it in the video, I think. What was it he said? He said that I'm a shrimp. Who's a shrimp? Me. Who's you? You know who I am. What are you talking about? Wait, are you referring to the phrase Timothy Jha as a shrimp as stated by legendary musician Panda Bear of Animal Collective and also his solo work? Do I tell you what almost happened a couple of weeks ago? I went to an ANCO signing with another... timothy jar is a shrimp side did you actually yeah yeah and i was i was in queue for like an hour maybe with a friend and like the queue was enormous and it just like wasn't moving and it was uh panda bear and deacon and queue just wasn't moving wasn't moving wasn't moving eventually i was gonna miss my last train home so i had to dip but the plan was cover up for this episode would have been an updated oh that would have been panda bear ot beef 2023 edition and like lord knows you've got stronger he's got stronger fuck knows what happens when those hands get thrown the amount of timothy jars of shrimp signs that piled up after that signing event closed was frankly unspeakable really absolutely wow absolutely it's too bad that no one managed to get the the pick the money shot you gotta play glastonbury man it'd just be a sea of them that'd be cool yeah have you have you been booked this year no no bro what's your relationship to animal collective in 2023 uh they're a good band man like yeah cool band they had some great albums good songs have you listened to a new album i haven't actually no it's damn good damn yeah i i think my favorite was feels so i mean i like sung tongs and i like strawberry jam a lot those were like the trio of my favorites i think maybe and i mean some of the eps are good too not a meriwether guy

Oh, yeah, Meriwether's sick, too, yeah. It is sick, yeah. But I think those three I was a bit more attached to than Meriwether, maybe. I'm joking. Okay, thank God. Wait, I feel like, was it you who coined the phase, all the feels? This gives me all the feels? I feel like you were saying that in relation to just media and content that you were consuming for the longest time. That's incorrect. That's incorrect? Yeah. Who taught you that? Was it Noctilucent? I think you taught me that. All the feels? Pretty sure you taught me that, man. I don't say it, but you taught me it. That's why I'm aware of it. I would have been in Europe and possibly Noctolucine's sphere of influence, so I'm sure I would have picked it up in London. So you say. So I say. What's been giving you all the feels lately, Tim? What does that mean, Deva? What media has given you some serious feels of light? media. Something that maybe inspires the sentence, this is everything. This is everything. ML Books gig last night was really good. What the hell? I didn't realize she was playing. Yeah, she played at Otto. What the fuck? Why was I informed? Because it was sold out. Good lord. Alright, give us a little play-by-play. Just really good. Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Otto with that like... enwrapped in atmosphere almost i mean i've seen you know i've been to a lot of gigs there but it was yeah people were like loving it was great like that many attractive people in cafe auto the vibe was very on point feels wrong yeah it does feel wrong yeah yeah i don't know it didn't feel that different to the usual cafe auto crowd actually i'm sure yeah i've never been to cafe i've only ever heard what no never wow not a single time that's mad neither cafe auto nor corsica which you're expressing A hefty dose of jadedness. For some reason, I'm almost more surprised you haven't been to Cafe Otto somehow. I've come precariously close to both. Quartz goes well. I don't think I've been to XOYO. I've never been to Fabric. This is Tim's episode. I've never been to XOYO. This is the one where you list all the clubs you've ever been to. I'm sorry. I like how you just listed XOYO and Fabric as a naturally connected duo somehow.

another flub I guess another flub in a blender it's true why don't we Corsica bet what's changed I don't know man Corsica is like a bit just a lot of clubs in London the bigger ones are a bit like airport security like you can't smoke after four in the morning now as well is that a fact changed it yeah really and you know there's people on the floor and high vis and shit Yeah. Okay. See, I'm vindicated. Yeah. That's the one exception. One exception. One exception. Please, please, please come. You might be able to take drugs. You can still take drugs in there, but you can't take in like chewing gum. Chewing gum is a drug. Yeah. You look high as hell right now, man. Don't be silly. Are you seeing pink elephants? You were saying that earlier. Don't be silly. You're talking about the trippy pink elephants and you're looking at your hands and expressing something profound. What's going on? What's the stack? That's just a fantasy that you've concocted, man. That's not what happened. What was the most Corsica-heavy time of your life? What was the most Corsica-is-everything time of your life? Paint us a picture. Like the best night I've had at Corsica, you mean? Well, the era that you were most frequenting, Corsica. What was the... Probably like 2013, 14, 15. Maybe those three years, I'd say. End of uni. Just post-uni type times, probably. Maybe... I guess I went there during uni too, but... I don't know. A while ago, basically. What was... what was the that wasn't that was my era londonistically like what was what was happening i had some good nights there to be fair yeah there were been some crazy lineups and that but i don't know i mean just don't go there so much now if you'd been here you would have been there too like definitely no doubt but alas one of my many laments my many ongoing laments what was the um what was the scene like 2012 2013 to 2015.

I wasn't part of any scene in 2013. But I still went to a lot of gigs and stuff like that. You were a scene adjacent for a while. No, I wasn't even barely releasing music back then. Not to the public so much. Maybe to a circle of people that knew me. Crossing my neck? Yeah, exactly. But obviously only 30 people ever listened to that at the time, probably. Yeah, why did you take that down? Just because it's so old now. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really... And I was very young when I made it, so it just... It feels a bit disconnected. And I also don't, like... You know what I mean? Like, not everything has to be accessible all the time. Like, there's so much... I've got a lot of music out, so I don't... It doesn't all have to be out there immediately, like, accessible to people. They can find it, probably, if they look, but... Have you seen the YouTube channel that that album's on? No. It's called, like, Acid Goon. Acid Ass Goon. I was in a, this is like a tangential side now. I was in like a work call today and a friend gave me a keep calm, be a gooner mug. I was in Arsenal and one of the guys in my call, he was like, he's like 38 or something. He has like two kids and he is weirdly online. and he assumed, like he took Gooner to meet Gooner in the jacking off your penis type context. We're in Tim's Goon Cave right now. We are in the Goon Cave. True enough, man. We're in the studio, brother. We're in the studio, man. This is where the magic happens. I'm so glad you said that. Who's the most famous person that's been in here? DJ Rich. The most famous person that's been in here. In the Goon Cave, probably. Alright. So, the diaspora. Let's speak on it. Okay. What are your thoughts on music that's expressly diasporic? It just depends whether it's good or not. If it's good, I'll like it. If it's not good, I won't like it. You know what I mean?

If I don't enjoy listening to it, then I probably won't pay attention to it. If I do think it sounds good and I'm into what I'm hearing, then I'll be into it. Simple as that. Diplomatic. Tim choosing not to burn the bridge over the river Kwai, so to speak. I mean, what do you mean? I mean, obviously there's lots of lame stuff like that. Yeah, but... There's lots of lame stuff full stop there, right? It's so true. this world is is suffused with lame stuff yeah a lot of lame stuff a lot of cool stuff so if that's what it is then it's kind of lame isn't it no that's not remarkable they're just if it's like when you say in between so like if it's not actually if it's not good then it's just kind of whatever there's so much shit you know i mean like what am i gonna i can't even like There's a good thing that Code9 said in an interview a long time ago where he basically said like 95% of stuff you just don't have to care about. You just have to find the 5% that really resonates with you and just hone in on that and the rest of it just treat it as noise. Yeah, true. True. Pity about the 5% he cares about now. Wow. Dom. Everything okay? You want to talk about Hyperdub's catalog in 2023? Wait, was it them or who was it that put out the John Frusciante? Bit Crushed. It's Planet Moo. It's Planet Moo. That would be so much funny if it was Hyperdub. It was Hyperdub? Yeah. I don't even, I have no idea what their output's like. Code 9's on the record has been like anti-guitar. Really? Still, to this day. You'd think he'd have kind of like a renaissance. Yeah, they put out the Lorraine James album this year. That was good. Yeah, I'm just taking the piss. She's goaded. I've seen a couple of pieces that sort of try to paint your music in like sort of a diasporic context. oh yeah because you're like japanese right yeah yeah exactly um yeah i mean do you want me to like expound on that or something yeah expound uh expound up a storm well i can understand why they might do that obviously so i don't really like take an issue with it but it's not i mean it's not necessarily like a sort of primal lens through which i would consider

my output or whatever, or the things I make, but it's part of it, sure. So I can understand why someone might choose to want to look at that or think about that. Why do you reject your oriental origins? I don't. Why do you identify more heavily with your honkyistic origins? I'm definitely a bit more culturally English, but... You say honkyistic. Yeah, that's the term, isn't it? No, I just... I've lived here for 11-12 years now. What's your address again? 12 years actually. I was born here. I'm English. I'm Chinese too. I love China. I'm a patriot. Stu, I feel like we talked about embracing some level of patriotism. I embrace patriotism, yeah. I love my countries. Did you know Jert Wilders, Indonesian? Who? What's that his name? Who? The Dutch guy. Who? Geert Wilders. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jert Wilders? How do you remember Jert? Damn, that's... Geert Wilders? Yeah, right. Cool. And I thought I'm on the record as being Dutch. This is just something I know because I'm generally worldly. Wow, you're a private Dutchman, huh? I'm not engaging with that. And I won't be expounding. This is your platform to expand. Interesting. That would interest you, wouldn't it, given your storied prickly history. Sounds like someone's turning the diaspora questions that he asked for himself on me. That's what it sounds like to me. As a diasporic. Hiding his Dutchness. As a diasporic Dutchman. Hiding his Dutchness. What's that about? What's that about? Listen, listen, we'll get into that. We'll get into that. We'll go deep into that. But like I said, you have kind of a problematic history with the Dutch. Yeah, it's true. This is established. Yeah. What is it about cheese on cauliflower? um that that peeves you so much well tim has made it out to me oh man i don't eat cauliflower so that's that's that's the already still shit six times a day that's what i'm saying like i eat fruit and stuff but i don't i don't eat yeah you know i don't eat vegetables that much so yeah i don't eat cauliflower at all like i've never really eaten cauliflower in my life actually i think when i was a like little baby i ate it

But then I didn't eat it after I was a little baby. Literally a baby. What would you look like as a baby eating cauliflower, do you think? Probably cute. Damn, to think of influential blade clone organ tapes shoveling down cauliflower as a wee diasporic babe. To think. Oh, to think. What was that interview you pulled up today where they used an image of... Did you guys know who that was? No, I'm not sure. Are you familiar with this? Perfect magazine. Is that right? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, where'd you put that at? Well, perfect magazine. Well, I just Google image search, Tim Jart, looking for some fire. And you were like, you were squinting. It's just like a random Chinese guy with a top knot. I don't know. You click on the link and it's an interview with you. The actual interview has like the right photos, doesn't it? It's not at the bottom of the interview. Okay, so it's just a Google glitch. Yeah, I think it's like an image result glitch or something, probably. Because I'm pretty sure the actual page has the right content. So you check your interviews a lot? Well, I haven't. So it could have changed. But I remember when it first got posted, it was right. So it may be something happened. I did see you. I feel like I saw you hastily. When we came into your home, you were hastily minimizing a lot of tabs. Organ taped interviews tabs. I mean... No, I didn't actually think to. I mean, I thought you guys would have done that, not me, right? You're saying it wasn't hasty. No, I take it back. It wasn't hasty. You did it with sort of like a cool, like disaffected detachment. No, I didn't do any research. You're the ones who need to do research. The lens is well and truly turned. So can you talk about the crux of your beef with the Dutch? Not that I have vested interest. I mean, you know what it is, but I'll tell the stories. The multiple stories. The guy at Dumpkring, notorious Dumpkring, who was damn talking shit about us behind our backs, and you alerted us to.

obviously and also harassing us to like buy more drinks constantly which was annoying as hell just very unpleasant not that wasn't you know that wasn't like nothing too bad but that was first interaction where it was like oh like people people being kind of like dicks to me out here like what's going on like and then next time obviously with that club incident with my tracksuit bottoms where they let me let that after hours of me being in the club they like kicked me out they tried to kick me out the club for wearing tracksuit bottoms And I was like, how are you going to kick me out when I've been in here for ages? And you searched me and everything when I came in and let me in. And I bought all these tokens to buy drinks because of this ridiculous token drink system. I don't remember that. So that was incident number two when they tried to kick me out there. And eventually I did manage to get back in. And the last one was the worst one. That security guy at Garage Nord tried to basically fight me practically. He was so angry at me. What precipitated that? I don't remember. Just because I kept going in and out. of the venue and he like didn't like that i was doing that even though i'd been there from like the start of the night for soundcheck and stuff so yeah i don't know man it was like constant constant incidents occurring basically i'm in netherlands but i think it makes decent case to be honest i mean i'm listen i'm i'm i'm not here to cast judgment i'm just here to i'm just here to hear his side of the story um I'll let them know. I mean, not that I'm Dutch in any meaningful way, but I'll certainly do my best to shift the narrative. Yeah, you've shifted the narrative plenty. You've shown me a world of good times in the Netherlands as well. It's been good along with the little incidents, but there's been good outside of that. I can't think of a single particularly notable good incident. It was all just kind of loitering. A lot of loitering. I don't know. I think it was generally enjoyable. Apart from that. Do you think the guy at the club might have been a bladestand? I don't know. It's a good question. It's a damn good question. It's a pertinent question, isn't it? It's sickeningly pertinent. Sounds like you've mostly got issues with Dutch security. Yeah.

kind of true actually not the first one wasn't it was just a guy who worked in this coffee shop it wasn't like a security guard or anything but the two out of three the other two were with club security well we definitely might not be going back to garage nord next year so let's see probably isn't going to be the same guy if i remember what the guy was saying he was sort of critiquing your because you were hitting like a like a fat blunt but it was it wasn't a fat but it was a really long thin blunt and rather than putting it to your to your lips you were sort of like putting it past your esophagus So this guy's like a Zaza kind of set. Yeah, he was like, first of all, he's not smoking loud. Second of all, he's putting that mid. He's deep-throating mid. Tim was deep-throating mid. Do you remember that? You've changed up your technique since then. No mid over here, brother. The technique remains unchanged. Okay. Pretty good episode title. The technique remains unchanged. It's kind of wordy. Yeah, no, we can trim that down for sure. So, okay, let's continue to get down to brass tacks. The Blade clone allegations. They're incessant, inescapable. No, it's definitely not true. All right, cool. What is it about the general public that they insist on... framing you in terms of blade i don't think they do anymore i don't know i think that was a more thing in the past i don't i don't think it's such the case now um nah i wouldn't say that's the thing now i think before i could you know it was because i was making more overtly electronic music so uh we kind of existed in the same sphere yeah now you're like a like a like a gay folk singer exactly yeah that's pretty accurate You were calling yourself the drain gang troubadour. Did I say that? Yeah, you did, repeatedly. While mincing. Mincing? Yeah, you were mincing. Like mincing up meat? That's what was happening once you were closing all the tabs of your own interviews. Yeah, you said you were the drain gang troubadour while closing tabs and mincing up meat while also mincing daintily on your feet. That's quite impressive. Interesting. It was a feat of coordination.

And you were like, this is a feat of coordination. Well, I mean, it would have been impressive. It was. You were in a fugue state, clearly. You don't seem to have retained any of it. It would have been impressive if I had done that. I don't recall that. I'm recalling it right now. Wait, hold on. I'm thinking about it. Yeah. It's not coming to mind. I'm thinking about it right now and I'm liking what I'm thinking. It's not coming to my mind, that's for sure. You've met Blade before, right? Yeah. Spill. He's a cool guy. Is he in your boiler room? I'm not sure. There's a comment on it that says, oh, that's Blade in the background. It's not. It's just a tall guy with sunglasses and long hair. Blade's probably shorter than Tim, for the record. Right? No. Isn't Blade like a hulking monstrosity? No way. This is what I've been told. 100%. Blade's a regular-sized dude. I was told... For you Dutchman, he's definitely regular-sized. I don't know why you're looking at me. No, look at a picture of him next to Lean. He's not tall. I would never look at a picture of two guys. Let alone three. Even though we're in the room with iconic Gabe focusing on... I'm not looking at him there. Yeah, true. Gabe focusing. yeah no absolutely damn looking right through me yeah and i i see through the bullshit i see everything the facade the diasporic facade um you played uh i remember and i was really i was really um i was really steamed at the time uh this is like a few years ago you played like a young lean after party And a friend of ours made a hilarious mistake that endures to this day. We'll talk about that later. Maybe we won't talk about it. The one was in the basement of that Mexican restaurant. Sean Cream Pie. You don't remember that? No. It was a really meek cream pie to be fair. He didn't own it. Interesting.

What would you like to see more? What are you talking about? It's not a euthanism. I thought you were going to say something real. That I'd forgotten about, but I guess there was no drama that night from what I recall. I might later. How was that? What's an after party with young Lee and Dewey like? It was a long time ago. It was good. Me and Ayub played back-to-back. Yeah, you know, that is played back-to-back. Shout out Ayub. And it was pretty fun. We played some... I kind of remember some of the tunes we were playing. And then it was just a good club night vibe. It was nice. Do you want to do like a little sort of reenactment of you behind the decks at the Young Lean After Party enjoying some music that you like? I was like... Keeping it chill, you know. You don't go buck behind the decks, really. Yeah, dude, what are you on about? Nah. Have you seen Tim go buck behind decks? Are you kidding me? I go buck as hell behind the decks. He goes more buck than you. Actually, no, that's bullshit. Dude, I'm bucked up. I'm bucked up. Rob's the chillest behind the decks. Rob's a consummate pro. I feel like you headbang. Yeah, no, David's doing the hair push. The hair push. You do the power. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be bopping. You know, I'd be having a little... Getting a stanky leg, stanky leg and up a start. You know, yeah. Yeah, what? Just, you know, busting a couple of moves. Okay, but have you seen... Okay, Dom, as a... Have you seen... tim genuinely go buck behind decks in your yeah those are exceptional circumstances though but that's if nights that like it's like that you and sean have organized or something like you're all going buck yeah definitely some buckness behind the decks of woolwich sounds like i'm just like feeling his way around buck sounds like you'll go buck on international waters

But on land, it's different. Tax-free situations. Different rules. Are you defining Woolwich as international waters? Of course. It's got the arsenal. So, okay. Let's get down to brass tucks. Your sister. Speaking of Buck, known to go violently hard in a way that you could never hope to approach. What happened, man? You had the same upbringing. You came from the same circumstances. You were molded in the same mold. Yeah. Why are you such a coward? It's a good question, but I don't have the answers, man. I just don't have the answers. Dude, I'm not going to say her name. Her name is... I'm not going to say her name. Sister Ja. Yeah. Just... When we came up, it just had a bit of a reputation. I'm not saying she was loose in any meaningful way, but she was an absolute demon. This seems kind of uncouth on your part. This isn't uncouth. I'm not giving any incriminating details, but she was known to be a bit of a hellion. Hellion Ja was sort of... As Tim would say, you were saying Hellion Jars are nom de plume. This is inaccurate. You used the phrase nom de plume before describing yourself. This is all a fantasy. I'm not sure why he has this fantasy. I'm MK for the proofs of this part. He does have a fantasy about this, clearly. So Tim was like, there was like an era where like Tim found out about stunting. I think he was watching a little Boosie. He was watching a little Boosie sort of like Instagram lives or whatever. And he got it in his head that he needed to stunt harder to be. To be more gang, as he also said. And his sort of version of stunting was sort of daintily pushing over chairs and being generally like a little bit rude. And not even rude, but snide. And then Helen got on the same tip. She was flailing indiscriminately. The amount of headbutts I've seen that girl deal out on just an average night on a fucking Tuesday. Unreal.

Unreal and frequently uncalled for. Was she on the boat? She was on... I mean, you wouldn't have seen her, but you would have... You would have felt that. I would have felt that. Yeah, no, for sure. You would have... The Trail of Blood. A few corpses got chucked over the boat that night. Buckjaw. Buckyjaw. Someone almost fell in the boat. Off the boat, I mean. Really? Yeah. I almost fell off like five times. I saved him. I pulled some guy. I did. Yeah. Wait, you saved someone's life. I saved it falling over the side. Do you saved so many lives that night with your set? That was a different type of saving. Yeah. Why what happened? Some guy just almost fell off the side of the boat and I saved him. Did he fall off because he was too buck? Probably. Yeah, he was buck. It was incredibly buck. It was like basically morning light out. He's like sitting on the side of the edge of the boat and just kind of leaned back and started to tumble backwards. I pulled him back. You pulled a guy? You can say that. On record. Dude, congratulations. It's a Dutch guy who went, oh, no, he's Belgian. I confused the Dutch and the Flemish. Wait, who was the Flemish? He owns the boat. Is that a Flemish person? I thought he was English. No, no, he's Flemish. I told you this. He's my neighbor. Genuine next door neighbor. What the hell? Damn. He hates getting put on blast. He doesn't listen to CloudFarm. His kids are so cool. They're like 18 and they just like, they just stand outside smoking loud all day. That is, that's cool. That's, that's hella cool. They're like, yeah, we're in film. You love, okay, let's get under brass tacks. Again? You love, okay, Daganj. No, that's not true. Daganj? Officially, that's not true. You know what that means? Yeah. I'm just saying officially that's not true, really. Okay, there's another guy called Timothy Jha who also records music as organ tapes and has a court man who loves Daganj. What might his relationship be with Daganj? Officially, there's none, basically. But otherwise, I've heard it's pretty chill. Some would say your music is a testament to that.

No, there's no relationship really with music. It's, you know, I mean, like, definitely not, I don't think, not in any essential way. Yeah. You think Tim's for the potheads? It's for everyone, you know what I mean? The stoners can listen to it. But if you happen to smoke weed, you might understand it better. I don't think so, no. I genuinely don't, like, feel that way or I've never... thought that like so on the on the record don't light one up and listen to ot it's up to you if you do smoke then you can if you don't then you shouldn't because then you might you know probably won't be good for you but yeah if you want to be a coward and a loser and go right ahead that's your that's your prerogative says you in the words of you yeah about you in relation to you no just about you no And it's the truth. This episode is so deep. So, okay, I'm hearing some Christo-type undertones to a lot of your music. But the word on the street is that you've functionally or technically converted to Islam in order to marry notorious lady DJ Mooney. Care to comment? I mean, yeah, we had a Nikar, so... Nikar. Wedding. So, it's part of it. So, but, yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't, yeah. Oh, you're actually married? Oh, congrats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quaz, you used to say hi to the mic or something? Hi. Fire. but yeah no i mean i'm i mean if i have to identify something i would still say a christian more than anything else yeah yikes trouble in paradise type scenario yeah news to me says uh notorious lady and also dj mooney it's not true it's not news to her at all she knows this full well it is the same god actually but

There's many things we abuse that differ as well. All right, let's settle this once and for all. Which is the best, Islam or Christianity? Anyone can practice what religion they want to. How do you practice? Is it like training? Kind of, perhaps. Could be. Once again, diplomatic. No, no. How's that diplomatic? That was an earnest response. As long as it's not harming anyone else. How does that work? How do you accept Islam? I mean, you just have to say a bunch of things, basically repeat after the imam and say a bunch of things. Yeah, that's literally it, actually. And then after that, I guess you can call yourself a Muslim if you want. How do you actively practice any kind of... Faith in like a formal dedicated setting ever I go to church with my mom sometimes, but I don't really go to church on my own What is her what what sect is your is your mom Protestant she's like isn't like non-denominational like born again again Christian type of Christian You ever speak at tugs not me personally, no But I've been kind of around that sort of thing, yeah. You've seen that in a Protestant church before? Yeah, it is like a Protestant thing. It's not a Catholic thing. I didn't realise that. It's like a very American evangelical Protestant Christian type of thing. Like the sort of theatrical version of it or whatever. What does that look like? You've seen videos of what it looks like. I've seen it in this country, in England. I think he wants a reenactment. I mean, just people babbling. You know, whatever. So very similar to this podcast. Literally, yeah, literally. Speaking in tongues. There's a non-denominational church by my house, and on Sundays, they sing Elvis and stuff. It's really cool. Really? Yeah. Well, it's a CB church, but they have a thing after. It's not like an intentionally non-denominational thing, so much as it's just not strictly of any particular nomination. But my mum would go to like...

any, like, local, like, Church of England church in, like, the village where my grandpa did. You know what I mean? If they're worshipping, she's there. Yeah, I mean, she wouldn't really go to a Catholic church just because she's not Catholic. But I'm sure if that was, like, all that was available to her, she probably would. But she, yeah, I mean, she, I guess, yeah. She, like, yeah, she says worship. Praise and worship is great. Great Naramali song. Great Naramali song, too. I remember you, what's the, they give you the flesh of Christ? What was it called again? The sacrament? I remember you complaining one time that it was too spicy. That didn't happen. You got a little spice. No, I'm all right. He's gotten better. Hot. Is that cause you care to confirm? Yeah, I get hot in Nando's. Yeah, I do. There's no difference between hot and extra hot and andos. They're the same. But they do have extra hot sauces. Yeah. But when it's cooked, I don't know if it makes much difference. Yeah, you're good at it. But you're not like insane. You're just good. I'm alright. Insane is like Callum's Zach. Extra, extra hot. I've done spice challenges. So like... also shouldn't we stop talking to cause because otherwise it's just going to be like a voice that everyone's talking to that's not on the actual i think rob you gotta like it'll get picked up okay okay you gotta project you gotta project cause you do love projecting though to be fair that should be easy for you yeah or your biases shout out zach by the way and shout out callum love callum you're you're uh so what what what what happened to you that you switched up the diet man because there is i mean You were notoriously spice-averse for the longest time. I actually don't know if you're joking or not. Luca, I was talking to him today, and he said there was a phase of your life where you were unwilling to eat anything that wasn't between two slices of bread. I mean, that's not true, but at a certain point, it's not too far off, but it was nothing to do with bread, though. Now you've got enough bread.

Exactly. What's your net worth? I don't know. I'd love to do the calculations for you. We were saying earlier that Tim's been thwarted bread-wise because of his dignity, right? True. Expound, man. Well, I feel like you probably know more than me, but just from... Well, as someone who's underpaid Tim, I can confirm that it's probably true. There's more bread to be made in this music game. Yeah, I'll just say that. We should rob... No. That's not what I meant. We shouldn't. Okay, we shouldn't. There's more bread to be made in this music game. No, I feel you. Loud and clear, brother. There's an exclusive. No, that's not an exclusive. I'm just saying there's more bread to be made in this music game. We should rock. Oh, is that a reference to coming on CloudFarm? Exactly. I mean, I feel like you're kind of like chronically lowballed. It was the phrase, I mean, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but you're kind of chronically low-balled by promoters. I've spent plenty of time, but then a lot of the time it's also just a reflection of the fact that a lot of people that book me are kind of just doing it themselves. Not always, but quite a good amount of time, they're kind of just doing it themselves. If they are kind of honest-seeming, maybe it's a bit naive, but if they're honest-seeming, then normally I'm pretty willing to just work with whatever they're working with. Unless it involves me traveling to another country and they're offering me no guaranteed money or something. Obviously, I don't really want to do that. Otherwise, I'm pretty... Have you ever had experiences where it's people that it's incredibly clear they have money, but they're still trying to lowball you and won't budge on it? I've had experiences where some pretty biggish artists... emailed me i mean not the artists themselves but i got an email about opening for them at like a big venue and i was immediately just like okay well like this is like an at live nation.com email address or whatever so i'm like okay they must have loads of money so i like was like give me x amount well i mean not i didn't give me it but i said my fee is x amount um you know uh

And I was kind of like firm on it because I was like, obviously, I know you guys are a live nation. So, you know, it's like you kind of expect to just be like, OK, I'm going to get a paycheck from something like that. But yeah, I think, you know, I feel like opening acts don't really get paid very much, actually. So it was great. Didn't even reply. UK tour and he got paid train tickets. Really? Who was that? That's wild. What the fuck? First of all, he played with... Yeah, they did like an EP together. What? This was like six months ago. He got paid train tickets. They said you can either have 50 quid per gig or train tickets. Fucking hell. You mean serious? Yeah, yeah. That's so insulting. And then he played like accidental meetings in the same venue like three months later and, you know, got fucking money in a hotel. That's insane. Yeah. Who organized that tour? Fuck you. I'm kidding, I have no idea. Who the hell? You don't know. I haven't got internet, otherwise I Google it. That's bullshit. That is crazy. Yeah, I think you find this a lot of the time when you come to working with like bigger institutions or any of this stuff. They're still tight as fuck and they're just as disorganized as working with like your random Tom, Dick and Harry who's trying to do it themselves. Yeah, like just don't get your tech writers. Just all this shit. It's embarrassing. It's their full-time jobs. I think they're also like willing to, there's a sort of like a history of like low balling and they're willing to like exploit people's assumed sort of thankfulness, like opening acts like assumed thankfulness for getting the privilege of playing with King Cruel or whatever. And a lot of people are sort of like credulous and sort of like naive enough to take those offers. I don't think it's necessarily naive though, because when it's like someone like King Cruel, it's like if you can, if you can afford to like stomach going on tour without. playing which like i mean if you have another job or if you're living at home maybe you can then it is actually like it's like not untrue that that would be very good exposure for for someone so it's in some sense it's it's not untrue but obviously you do expect to get paid for playing especially if it's like a big audience like that the live nation shill speaks yeah

Sometimes, though, you find that when promoters have some kind of public funding, in Europe especially, it's often the case, they will just come straight away with a pretty good offer. That's nice when that happens. Shouts out public funding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Made Oasis. Thank God for that. I think... What? I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. Oasis? Yeah, they're like the public funding in the 90s. A lot of these, like, Britpop bands or whatever. Oh, really? Yeah. They got government grants to make music. They were, like, unemployed for, like, years. That's just the Dole, man. That's not, like, an art grant or, like... That's not the same as, like... I think they did get an art grant. And also, wasn't the Dole, like, a lot more permissive? It was, but, like... Not for Oasis, surely. I may have been misinformed. They were working as like in spiral carpets tour guys. I don't know why I know this. That's a good tip. They were like their roadies. Yeah, you're thinking of more like throbbing gristle or something like that. You know what I mean? Really, it was like that type of thing. Earlier shit. Okay. I was like, I mean, I feel like at least locally, like in London, I mean, I feel like you're part of why you're so... just aggressively low-balled is because of your willingness to play with people that you fuck with in a way that in a roundabout way it's just sort of like cultivates the assumption that you're willing to cut corners or to have cut corners or to have corners cut on you why the scene love man put it aside i mean it depends you know what i want to do like yeah if to be honest like if i want to like make a career a musical whatever it is Then at some point then I will have to like try and play different types of gigs, you know I mean and I get into the Like sort of network of like booking a certain type of show that maybe isn't what I'm usually playing at the moment But but that's you know, that's if I want to go down that route, I guess What is that route? Just the route of like wanting to like book slightly bigger venues and like, you know Just the kind of route trying to be a professional musician or whatever. Have you turned shit down?

No, I don't mean I'm turning. I just mean more in the sense of overtly working with an agency and tapping into whoever they're going to reach out to, to book whatever tour, rather than the way I do it now, which is just letting whoever reach out to me and whatever comes to me, I just play. So basically you feel like you'd need to be slightly more willing to play the game? of course of course i mean that's again if we're talking about like trying to be a professional at this shit for a living type shit yeah then of course yeah i mean that's something i've like realized more as i've gotten older it's like the kind of fantasy of like not having to like put the kind of grind and like wanting to like actually be a professional musician in like if you if you just want to make it all about the music you can but like you probably won't live off of it yeah like and if you do want to do that then 95 99 percent of the time unless you're that one percent that is super super lucky 99 percent of the time you have to really consciously go for that in a way i think that's what i've like you know that's what i kind of see more as i get older yeah yeah does that come from seeing other people that you know have those experiences yeah for sure and just also just like from my own experiences is kind of realizing that like yeah just kind of also just from my own experiences too but yeah also kind of seeing other people's experiences and learning from other people's experiences and things like that yeah and do you feel conflicted about that at all this idea of like you say not being able to have that sort of one percent of success and kind of be for like you're seeing or whatever you want to call it versus having to do this game playing is that something you go back i mean at the end of the day i think it's probably not something that you actually have to like choose so starkly between yep you know what i mean um i think you could probably um find a way to make like a living in music sustainable while also not like necessarily entirely losing connection to uh yeah like a more modest income comes from striking a balance yeah i mean yeah i mean i think also the thing that you have to also realize is that like there's a difference between like being

like part of a scene in like a like a um in a kind of like a media friendly way no there's a difference between like sort of being part of a scene and like being like uh like part of like a kind of like network of like people that are like diffuse and like don't necessarily even like know each other but it's like a sort of I don't know like I I kind of like to think of my relation to the scene as not that and more based on like kind of just people that I've met and like people that I know because otherwise it's like don't know it becomes something that's a bit too like you don't really know a lot of people in this quote unquote scene because of the way that we interact now do you know what I mean so it's a bit I don't know it's kind of it's easier just to focus on like people that you know and like to focus on your immediate surroundings in a way and obviously I mean you'll meet people in other places if you travel for shows and things like that and you will form friendships and but I don't know it's I'm not like what I mean is I'm not so even like I'm not really worried about like scenes or being connected to a scene or this or that I'm just as long as I'm connected to the the people i want to be connected to and having my life in my life that's that's fine and then when it comes to music um you know there's a lot of crossover anyway because a lot of my friends are involved with music but yeah it's so i don't know like i don't i don't really worry about being like connected to scenes i just let whatever happens naturally happen in that sense and i really like understood what it what it is to like really aggressively sort of i guess like network in like a very sort of like targeted fashion um like my only frame of reference is just kind of like the sort of corporate world just like the where you like you'll be forced to be at sort of like a work sort of like mix or whatever maybe it's like a conference or some shit have you ever been in like a club smoking area and have someone come up to you and say hey you should book me or like hey you should put my track on

the mk page or something like that uh yeah that's kind of perhaps a uh sort of whatever like an underground version of that very kind of calculated pointed the tiniest microcosm yeah that happens though i've never had to be like i roll but i mean the it's only sort of like recently that i've like i see sort of like vague elements of that just like gradually like appearing where you have like a given like person who like talks to you for like a whatever like and sort of like 15 seconds into your conversation you spot them kind of like looking over your shoulder in kind of like a in like a tactical way like plotting a like charting a like charting their next move in a way that really really like depresses me and for the longest time like that stuff is something that i only really like clocked in sort of like a professional like i said like sort of like a corporate kind of like setting But to do that in a musical, artistic, quote-unquote, space, also, quote-unquote, just sickening to me. Sickening to me. I feel like that shit does not come to you naturally in the slightest. No, but you see it all the time, though. Normally, less dramatically. People will have a lot more time for certain people than others, you know what I mean? Stuff like that. It's usually more like that than anything that's like, oh, like, some, like, someone dissed you or something or like you know there's someone's like oh who are you or something not like that it's more like people would just you see like certain people with certain personalities will have much more time for certain people than others or whatever you know so not everyone's like that obviously but you see that yeah i'm gonna have to call hypocrisy here costco smoking area 2015 i'm out with some friends and mr organ tapes comes up to me we've never met before never said a word and he says oh bro TT, huge fan. You should release my album, Word Life, in September of this year. That was exactly how it happened. For a long time, most of the conversation, I was thinking, fuck this guy. But then I saw something in him. And then he said, he's diasporic. That was it. He saw the spark of a champion. A champion, you say?

First time I met Tim, I said, dude, can I be in your band after watching him do a solo set? Is that what you said? I remember you saying that. I think he was just like, yeah, yeah, nice. What were you going to offer to do in the band? Because someone told me that he was starting a band. So I definitely did come up. I had a conversation with you about five years ago about it and you seemed quite anti the idea. I think five years ago it would have been like... probably slightly more like most of them instrumentation would have been more like midi focus and stuff so it would have been like what's the point of like pretending it's bad music bad music whereas now there's like multiple guitar tracks that are like live and like instrument recordings and uh like bass parts that like you know bass guitar or whatever or um even drums like i wouldn't could play with the drummer now because a lot of them have more so this this was definitely pre-hungary me living yeah yeah probably back then i was opposed to that because i would have been opposed to trying to play and i mean like fucking playing like seedling in a band you know i mean like it would just be ridiculous like yeah maybe i don't know seven minute seedling yeah shit bass solo post-rock seedling yeah i mean you never know i guess but it's not that's never crossed my mind i'm not gonna lie that's never crossed my mind but going back to like funding and stuff um and Doing it your own way. Guided by Voices did it for like 10 years where they got all the money because he was a teacher. He like borrowed money from like the teachers union or some shit. And they never got, you know, they're just playing Barts, same Barts, 10 years. And then he like said, oh, we're going to call it quits. I can't remember the name of the album. But then as soon as he said that, obviously fucking Matador would wrap the door like, here's a hundred grand, go make Alien Lanes, essentially. Was it Alien Lanes? Oh, no, it was a bit earlier than that. But with the Alien Lanes, they gave him a hundred grand and, you know, he got into being like, how much, so how much did he spend on the album? And he was like, oh, like, however much two cases of beer. Yeah, yeah. Pretty cool. That was pretty sick. But yeah. How was he funding it? So he was getting, he was taking my, because I think at that time as a teacher, you could like get loans.

so he's just like increasingly racking up debt to like the teachers union or some shit in america wow so no respect no respect for his fellow teachers well no no because he said i think he said in like 93 i gotta stop this i gotta quit like my band isn't going anywhere i just gotta be a teacher and obviously you've fucking worked out for him yeah so so what we're hearing is cloud farm advice steal from your colleagues oh well i mean tim tim could steal from his work No, I can't do that. I would never do such a thing. He can't steal from PWC again. I wish. I wish. It wouldn't be chill, but I'd be making a lot of money. We're 50 minutes in. We have a little break. Must do it. So bad. Talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk who's is that?